The Crunchy Con is a Crunchy Convert
October 14th, 2006 ~ Orthodox perspectiveWell, what do you know about that? Rod Dreher, who wrote “The Crunchy Conservative”, converted to Orthodoxy (HERE). As I recall, there were some other Ortho-bloggers who really related to that book, so I thought you’d like to know. (The book is on my Christmas list — I’m terribly backlogged on my reading.)
His article on how and why he left Catholicism makes for interesting reading. He has some things to say about the Catholic Church and its recent scandals that are hard to hear. It’s a long read, and I couldn’t see my way clear to diving into the 338 comments that were there when I wrote this, but they’d be interesting reading as well.
One quote if you don’t feel like making your way through this. He said this about his conversion, and I think a lot of us can relate:
Julie and I put off converting as long as we could, but we finally had to admit to ourselves that we loved these people, that we loved this faith, and we didn’t want to leave it.
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October 15th, 2006 at 12:01 pm
I noticed today that his conversion entry is no longer on his blog. I checked out some of the 200+ comments to his entry the other day and was appaled at what seemed to be an overal negataive and adverserial nature to a lot of the comments. This may be why the entry isn’t there any longer, I’m unsure.
October 15th, 2006 at 12:10 pm
It saddens me to read all the nasty comments that column engendered. Terrible abuses are taking place in every denomination. What it all comes down to is this: we are obliged to make the changes we think we have to, in order to maintain our faith in God as revealed through Jesus. I have been damaged by the Catholic Church as well as comforted by it. But ultimately my faith is in Christ — not any Church. I would be the last person to tell someone they must stay in a Church in which they can no longer worship. The sex scandal has not only chased Catholics from the Church. It has killed the faith of many who will never darken the door of a church again. Anyone who has protected evil-doers will have to answer in the Presence of God.
Meanwhile, I search outside the Catholic Faith to build my faith and trust in Jesus. How long I will remain Catholic is a question I cannot answer. The Church is so much a part of my life — I teach in a Catholic school — that even if I choose to align myself with another denomination, I will still remain a Catholic. I cannot excise or erase the meaning it has had for me — nor would I want to.
October 15th, 2006 at 12:11 pm
Re the previous comment: I was just at the website and everything is still there as of Sunday afternoon.
October 15th, 2006 at 3:54 pm
I thought the tone of the comments was pretty acidic, but unfortunately, I was expecting as much or worse. That low expectation comes firstly from the nasty nature of discourse in online comments — those on this blog notwithstanding :-). It’s really too bad, but the relative anonymity and ease of getting your 2-cents in brings out the worst in some people.
And secondly, a high-profile individual who converted to Catholicism and then left is going to push all the hot buttons of some people. I can feel that little undercurrent in myself that could easily mistake a natural stubbornness and intractibility for devotion and integrity.
Having said all that, I was surprised at how mean-spirited some of those comments were (I did end up reading about a third of them until I gave up). I may be missing some context, but I don’t see anything in his very honest and forthright narrative that would lead to some of the accusations of “church-shopper” and “betrayer.” And I really resented some of the nasty, ignorant swipes at the Orthodox Church, some made by people that seem to have made a career out of protecting the Catholic Church from any nasty, ignorant swipes.
It seems to me that the pain that is obvious throughout Dreher’s recounting of events was transferred to quite a few of the readers. Anyone’s crisis of faith is terrible to see. Here’s hoping he does find peace in this faith. Many commenters seemed to think that he was just one of those restless sorts that will never be able to settle, but then that might have just been sour grapes.
October 15th, 2006 at 5:38 pm
Sorry about the creative spelling in my first post. Also, earlier today Grace’s link to his post wasn’t working - so I simply went to his blog and searched for the post visually - it wasn’t there.
Now it is back again :) Such is the way of things sometimes. May he and his family find peace.
October 15th, 2006 at 10:12 pm
Funny the link was up and down. It was through beliefnet, which is usually pretty reliable. The times I checked it it was working, but maybe I just lucked out. The comment number was up to 352 last time I looked.
October 15th, 2006 at 11:38 pm
I dunno… I think any time someone is egomaniacal enough to parade their inner life and struggles and issues before the world, they get what they get. While I’m sympathetic to Rod, I know firsthand there is a certain egoism to “personal journey” writing. For him to expect anything less than he got, positive and negative, and to let either of them cause him joy or grief is a sign of passion, something hopefully he’ll come to terms with in Orthodoxy. Justifying a very personal decision to the world on the internet is welll…. spiritually sketchy in my book. Maybe I underestimate his influence and the gravity of him converting.
I dunno. Maybe he is above all that and I’m being judgmental here. I’m glad he’s “here”… I’m a bit leery of the publicity surrounding the move.
October 16th, 2006 at 7:09 am
It’s a mixed bag. I didn’t read the comments far enough to see what Grace is referring to….but I did see Al Kimmel’s (Pontificator) reaction…which was to question whether or not Rod was ever really Catholic. Nice end run. And nice to so handily read and judge the minds of others….’cause there can only be one way of being Roman Catholic? Like….how truly universal can THAT be? Yes, sometimes those who style themselves as evangelisizing for their team need to consider how they sound. I think someone once wrote that we are often best summarized both by our friends and admirers as well sometimes as by those for whom kind words about us do not come readily. And Rod is certainly getting an earful of both, perhaps.
I guess the whole sense of “my team” and “your team” - which is what this gets down to - is less than constructive. It is a game, and it is too narrow. The Roman Catholic internet crowd is a very tough crowd. I’m sure the equivalent can be found in many places….but my experience with these folks is that many would rather bull than argue the opposition. The WWF of apologetics is not my idea of winning folks to Christ. Of course in all fairness, the sad thing is that this would not fit either of the last two popes ideas of winning folks to Christ either….their views just doesn’t seem to filter down all that far through the church for some reason.
So while it may be parading something better kept to the small audience of folks that actually care as s-p suggests, Rod’s description and experience does hit a few chords for those others of us who considered both teams before seeing that actually the underdog team is…..well….a tad more becoming and humble. For me, that’s what it seems to be about in the first place. Nice to have a priest in a small, family size parish as well.
October 16th, 2006 at 8:34 am
s-p:
I think there is a commenter somewhere towards the end that makes that point, and I hadn’t thought of it. Like you, I’m not sure if I have all the context. For instance, I still don’t understand this flurry of accusation that he should have honestly told everyone he was moving away from Catholicism and towards Orthodoxy when he was criticizing the Catholic Church on his blog, because — as one of the Catholic commenters says — they consider the criticism of other Catholics, but reject the criticisms of ex-Catholics. I just plain don’t get that one, but it may just be a Catholic thing(?)
But all things being equal, I wonder about that public aspect of this private decision. I also wonder about other aspects of his personality that show in this, but at about that place, I am getting judgmental.
October 16th, 2006 at 8:38 am
James:
That ‘your team - our team’ thing kind of blew me away. It seems from some of the rhetoric as if it’s a big competition. Do Orthodox get that way as well? If so, I haven’t seen it.
I try to put myself in the position of a devout Catholic these days. The scandals were really, really awful from anybody’s POV, but maybe you just dig in and adopt a combative pose that doesn’t allow for any flexibility.
Just a guess. I don’t know any devout Catholics right now, so it’s all abstract to me.
October 16th, 2006 at 11:34 am
Grace:
I’m not at the WERE stage. The scandals ARE and will continue to be tough, depressing, etc. New? Probably not. Taken as a sign of a church that wishes to be honest with itself and address at least some of the stuff swept under the rug….I think at the end of the day it is in fact a good sign. If it institutes a level of constant vigilance rather than just a one-time clean-up, it will be a real blessing. One day.
I think the TEAM thing is an internet phenomenon and hopefully confined there. I do not run into these folks in the flesh, but suppose they may carry on the same way…which would make me run. I find it unappealing and very lacking in the sort of Irenic tone that might make the whole good. Used to be a phrase: Christian first, catholic (generic sense) second, and well….er…Anglican third. Substitute Orthodox for me, Roman for some others I guess. In fact, as someone whose left behind this sort of combat in the Anglican world, I just didn’t want to be a part of it either in the diaspora, the Roman Catholic church, or elsewhere. Looking forward rather than backward is a process that helps me keep one foot after the other without falling over.
In the end, the combat pose adopted of necessity may all too readily become a frame of mind. When the shootings over, it may be harder to give up and go back to normal. As they say, it’s often a new normal, not the one we started with.
October 16th, 2006 at 5:13 pm
James — I like the term WWF used in connection with the sort of combativeness on Catholic blogs. That is one reason this blog is refreshing. I have found that there are a variety of litmus tests one must pass in order to have the “right” to have your comments considered on a couple of Catholic blogs I read. But I have come to consider them a waste of time. People aren’t having conversations — they are talking at each other, with a generous amount of name-calling thrown in for good measure. If you cannot cite a library’s worth of papal or liturgical documents, then move out of the way or get run over.
Regarding the public-ness of Dreher’s column, I have heard his name but have not read anything prior to this column. In the movie on C.S. Lewis’s life (the name escapes me right now), he is quoted as saying that we read to know that we are not alone. It means someone has to write that material. As someone who is a cradle Catholic, I can identify with the pain he experienced and to a certain extent, is still experiencing. I think everyone who is enduring a painful situation, especially in the spiritual realm, needs to know they are not alone — even if they don’t choose the same path as the writer.
October 16th, 2006 at 7:48 pm
Barbara:
Agree 100% with your comments….in all cases. And my thanks to Grace and so many other Orthodox bloggers for….er…well, their grace to provide a place where one might actually try to humbly offer a comment or two from time to time.
Leaving any Church where one has lived and loved and cried for those who have wed, those who were born, and even those who have died….is a very, very hard thing. No matter what. And we are not now, nor were we then, nor will we ever be alone….though so often it may seem like it.
October 17th, 2006 at 12:09 am
Nice comments all around. I agree that “reading/writing to know we are not alone” is powerful. But…A scripture that shell shocked me about 25 years ago when I was at the height of my 80’s “self disclosure” faze was John’s gospel saying of Christ: “He did not confide in men because He knew what was in man.” Yikes.
October 17th, 2006 at 3:57 pm
Clearly s-p, one must be wise in whom they confide. But the intimacy of marriage for example, requires that each person be able confide in the other. Life would be incredibly lonely if we did not have at least one trusted friend. In the case of Dreher, when one’s life is public and in this instance, his work is intrinsically tied to his religious beliefs, I don’t know how better he could have handled it.
Why do we read Scripture? One reason that the Scriptures are timeless is that we can relate to David– his joys, shame, and sorrow; to Peter with his bluster and fear; to all those who approached Jesus for healing; and to Jesus, who experienced rejection, desertion by His friends, as well as the comfort of being in the presence of Martha and Mary. Of course we are never really alone; as Christians we know this. But there is power in the shared experience, even when we can only share vicariously through a book. I am sure that you have read a book or column from time to time and you wished that you could say to the author, “That’s right! That is exactly what I experienced.”
October 17th, 2006 at 5:48 pm
Hi Barbara,
I know what you mean… I walk a tightrope between self disclosure and privacy. At 54 years old I’m tending to be more private having seen the fallout of self disclosure and frankly my ego involved in thinking my personal experiences needed public justification or explanations. The difference between a “personal journal” and the Gospels is that someone else told the stories about all those people. Basically, to be honest and only because it is true of me, I think it is generally (not ALWAYS) a sign of narcissism to think the world needs to hear me tell about my personal life. I agree, shared experience is what human beings are all about. Its just my shortcoming that I tend to judge those who go to lengths to justify a very personal path in a very public forum because I’ve been there, done that, and know my motives. sigh…..maybe not everyone is like me.
October 17th, 2006 at 11:27 pm
Well, you know at some portion of people are like you, or else a lot of the blogosphere would wither up and die. ;-)
I think Orthodixie made the point some time ago that bloggers all have a little narcissist in ‘em. Better people would probably just cease and desist (and some have). I think I hang in there because I know I’m flawed, but figure it’s worthwhile to see how all us flawed people are working out our flawed lives toward the hope of perfect redemption. Apart from the personal touch, Orthodoxy (and other “serious” strains of Prot and Catholic, I’m thinking) can get so beautiful and abstract that you fall into prelest on one hand (”Orthodoxy looks GOOD on me.”) or despair on the other (”I’m the only schlub in the Church!”).
Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, especially in the blogosphere. Personally, I like the ones where people don’t mind letting their scrapes and bruises show. But, in case it needs to be said, that doesn’t include some public spectacle of opening your veins. For reasons I can’t understand, some people need to hurt themselves and make other people watch. Hopefully, there’s no strain of that with the Crunchy Convert.